"...but some can't help but scratch their heads over the fact that a team coming off a 3-13 season has sat idle in free agency."


Its called staying committed to the plan you decided on when you let Brooks, June, Buchannon, and Dunn go. At least they are headed in somekind of direction with the team. Rebuilding a teams from dirt takes more than one year people, especially if you are aiming to stay young.

Seven wins, Rah&Co. keep thier jobs. Not that hard with our schedule.

ok, im getting really tired of this. just shut up and let everything work itself out!!! god damnit this FA class was one of the weakest since the market opened. all these big time FA that everyone wants are A) either over the age of 30 B) if they were a FA we would have to give up our draft pics to get and C) were not looking for stop gap players. were looking for young players. we have players like ronde barber, kellen winslow, jeff faine, cadillac willams and now reggie brown. all of these guys are good guys to have around the young group of players were gonna have. we are a YOUNG TEAM that is the direction we are going. scratch your heads all you want, this team does have a direction, it may not seem clear to many of you but they do. dominik cares, raheem morris cares, they all care and are going to make this team great again. by no means are they perfect, but jdouble said it earlier b4. dominik has to look into the future and make moves that may look odd now, but later on pay off. 400 FA could be hitting the market next yr 400!!! thats 12-13 players that could be signed per team next yr, and everyone is whining and moaning bc we didnt go after FA in a weak WEAK FA class. were not contending right now. we have to build our core. we will go after FA when the time is ready, but nows not that time. i want this team to get better, but weve tried the stop gap game and it didnt work, they want to go into the draft and have that be the foundation of this team with the RIGHT free agents sprinkled in as they go along. FA is soooooo overrated, especially this yr. Mark is building for the future, now the now which is what everyone wants. dom i believe in you, keep working hard.

not the now** sorry

and when we play cinci, i hope aqib gets a chance to go up against antonio so he can shut him down. however, since chad is the better receive,r aqib will most likely be on him all day.

There is a direction, and it's called rebuilding through the draft ONLY. It's important to note that with this team, that direction is impossible for these coaches to survive long-term.

You just cannot make it without some help from a key free agent signing or two. If the team would have signed Bolden, or maybe Thomas Jones, or made a move for Marshall, something to give the team a spark interms of talent, then you talk about adding a guy like Suh or McCoy in the draft and you now have some buzz....

Instead, the team lost it's best WR, are yet to replace him, and have made no signifigant moves in free agency thus far.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out real quick that the team is headed in the wrong direction.

Now, long-term, the team could be headed in the right direction if some of these draft picks pan out...BUT.....


BUT....Sad part is it will be a new set of coaches that will be leading these men into the future when that day comes when they are competitive again. Right now, this team is NOT a competitive football team, and it appears they have taken a big step in the wrong direction.

Life is certainly going to be tougher on Freeman heading into next year.

I agree, im not sure why people are expecting us to be so active in free agency... there is nobody available that would do anything for is in the long run except maybe Marshall but he has to many character issues to risk giving up your high first round draft pick on. The plan is to be patient, draft well and develop a roster that will win consistantly year after year... overpaying for old players doesnt fit that philosophy. I like where this thing is headed and im looking forward to '10... GO BUCS!!!

id rather get players through the draft that have a better chance of staying here long term than players that will be gone in 2 yrs. just my opinion though.

Bolden has 5-6 years of high-level football left, so I'm not seeing your point. So does Brandon Marshall, so does Karlos Dansby, and probably Aaron Kampman, Kyle Vanden Bosh 3-4, Thomas Jones 3-4....So I'm having a hard time seeing your point...

The point is Tampa has missed out on signing a couple players. Just 1-2 would have made a huge impact on their ability to win games next season, and adding those extra couple guys could have helped make the difference on whether or not the team is hiring a new coach and GM next year.

Well said bucfan47
While I do agree this FA class is weak - Maybe the Bucs are taking the correct approach. We are so young and need help in so many areas this team is just not ready for an impact FA / trade.
This year's draft is loaded and the Bucs don't want to part ways with those picks. 2011 is looking like a train wreck with the CBA – The Bucs will then make a move for that Leader/ impact player via FA or trade in 2012.
It’s still early in the off-season, but I just don’t know how Freeman gets better when his supporting cast has not gotten any better. (maybe worse?) We don’t have a #1 or 2 receiver and all of our RBs are 3yards and a cloud of dust. Rebuilding is a frustrating process.
Go Bucs!

Wow, that was a whole buncha info we already knew...

bucfan47, I disagree about Bolden; 1-2 years at best left in the tank as a productive receiver.

I agree with Bucfan47. Yes Tampa is going to rebuild through the draft but in order to to that you need a couple of key components. First you have to be able to recognize talent and draft quality players which the Bucs dont have a great track record of doin. If you cant draft talented players then your never going to be able to rebuild through the draft. Second you need a few high quality Vets to help develop your drafted players and lead them. What good was drafting Freeman if we give him no one to throw to to help develop him into a franchise QB. If he has a horrible season this year due to lack of talent in WR, all you fans will be calling for his head. That will slow or even stop his progress, and kill his moral and confidence. The purpose of picking up a couple of quality FA is not to win a championship, it is to help develop the talent we are aquiring in the draft.

high quality vets means players who can come in and help the young guys learn... that doesnt mean over priced old players who would come in and take playing time away from the younger guys. They may help us in terms of 1 or 2 wins but by no means would they make us contenders... so in effect you would only stunt your young players growth. The way the bucs are doing it is great... they are finding guys with experience who can come in and mentor our young guys and at the same time not take to much playing time away from them. We arent a few high priced players away from contending for anything... you people seen not to realize this..... why pay out the ass for guys who arent gonna get you over the hump?... i understand your point about needing free agents but the bucs arent at that point yet.

I really don't understand everyone's fascination with B. Marshall. The guy is an immature cancer. No team he has been on has ever won a playoff game despite being full of talent. He has constantly gotten in trouble both inside and outside of his football team. He sets a poor example and has gotten in a bad way with 2 different coaches and 2 different QB's in the NFL.

All of these are the reason he was around in the 4th round of the draft. He's been up to no good since college. All of this and the asking price is a 1st round pick? That's lunacy! Has no one noticed that no one has bitten on this 1st round offer for a young WR who has gotten 100 catches every year the last 3 years?

A. Boldin is a great leader and player and was not a FA for a reason. His game is built around being a possesion receiver and getting YAC. He can do that well into his 30's, like Keyshawn did. If we were going to get a veteran WR this offseason, Boldin would have been the way to go, especially for only a 3rd and 4th round pick.

All the other guys mentioned were FA's for a reason. Kampman was the only one that was maybe worth taking a risk on.

47 I agree with your first post except I think the coaches remain here. Why? Because it's the approach the Glazers decided to do and decision they handed down. I think if we get 6 wins or more, maybe even 5 or more, Raheem is safe.

1bucfanjeff do you really think we will get 5 wins with the talent we have. We will be lucky to get 3 wins again and 2 of them will probably come against Carolina.

Horse - No way with his frame. No way in hell. He's got 5-6 easy. He's the most physical WR in the NFL today. Just take a look at another productive WR on that very team, Derrick Mason. Do you know his age? He's still better than anyone we have right now, and you can take that to the bank with any WR on the Bucs roster. He's better all day.

All I'm saying is that NONE of you can debate that signing some of these free agents wouldn't have helped.

You simply CAN'T ARGUE IT. It's not debatable. How would having Bolden not have helped, given the fact we just lost our most productive WR in Antonio Bryant? Do some of you realize the regress that's just instantly taken place at the WR position?

Need I remind you fans that the team sucked at passing the football with Bryant on the roster. Now the team is looking to start Stovall, Clayton, and Stroughter? You think that's going to get it done in the NFL?

Look, I'm not here to constantly rip on the Bucs. I've followed them for years. I just have a very hard time believing these coaches have any risk (balls) in them. It's like they don't want to be employed. They want to be fired. Honestly. That's how they are acting.

There is no arguing that some of these players in free agency would have helped more-so than what they will get via the draft.

YOU WILL NEVER HIT ON EVERY DRAFT PICK. Never. That's why draft picks are over-rated. The Ravens got a steal when they traded for Bolden. They gained a WR who's EASILY got 5-6 years of productivity left in the tank for it's young, developing QB in Flacco. That move to land Bolden was brilliant.

That's exactly why the Ravens are constantly making the playoffs. They are a well-run organization. That move was a no-brainer to them, as well it should have been. Bolden can instantly make them an explosive offense, behind that awesome running attack and combined with Heap and Mason. They may even add another WR in the draft. How scary is that?

While the Bucs have lost their best WR, and now it APPEARS they are set ONLY to upgrade the WR position via the draft.

There is not ONE WR that they can sign that right now impresses me enough to say that our WR core will not be the worst in the league for next year.

Pinkstob to blame Marshall for not winning a playoff game is insane. Without him denver would have never even made it close to the playoffs. Thats like saying Marino wasn't a great QB becasue he never won a SB. It takes more then 1 player to win a playoff game. He made Orton look like a probowler last year. He is a constant big play threat. I do agree that he does have alot of charactor issues but when has the bucs ever turned away a player with issues. Peolpe were saying the same thing about Bryant a couple of years ago. Talib is just as bad when it comes to charactor issues. Hell Stevens got away with raping girls and we still kept him. The reason no one has bitten on him for a 1st round pick is because of the amount of talent in this years draft. I bet you come draft day he will go somewhere for at least a 2nd round pick. Charactor wise I hate Marshall. Talent wise he is an elite WR (top 10)who would make Freeman look very good and greatly help with his progress. Would he destroy our team with his charactor issues? Maybe, but when has that ever stopped us from aquiring a player in the past. I do agree that if we were going to get a big play WR this year Bolden would have been the way to go.

1bucfanjeff - We'll just agree to disagree. The Glazers put Morris in place because of cost-saving measures. If he turns it around, he stays employed. If he doesn't, he's fired. The fact they are rebuilding has nothing to do with the time-line. It's got everything to do with their financial situation combined with the progression of the team. The win-loss column is all that matters.

I will promise you if they go 3-13 next year, he's gone. No question in my mind.

Marshall has his issues, playing football is NOT one of them. He's the best at his position.

Jesse posted awhile back: "Marshall mentor our WO. lol"

Probably the funniest thing I've read in awhile. I keep reading posts where we need key FA, and we need mentors for our young guys...I agree with both points, but I don't think they're the same point. Hovan is a great mentor for our young DE's, but he's not a talent at DE anymore. If our offense is going to be precise timing routes then Torry Holt would be a great mentor for our WO, but again he's not a talent at WO anymore.

Who are these magical guys that were great mentors, and talented starters that the Bucs' missed out on? I liked AB, but whatever he said/did last season it pissed off the FO bad enough that they didn't even try to bluff some value out of him. They dropped him like a bad habit. I do think the Network hit on one solid point--the Bucs' need Sapp and Brooks, at minimum, to show up at rookie camp and disperse some wisdom.

wnb0395 - I rarely use the word "cancer" to describe a player but I used it to describe Marshall because cancers can serve as 1 person keeping a team out of the playoffs. It's the affect they have on the mindset of other players on the team.

Has the Keyshawn fiasco really been that long ago that people have forgetten the affect he had on the team? What about T.O.? Teammates see cancers getting away with poor behavior and when the guys in charge let it go on longer than it should (and they always do with the talented ones) they say to themselves, "Why should I sell out my body for this team or coach when this is what they stand for?"

Santonio Holmes exhibited similar immature behavior that wasn't always made public, but when Tomlin straightened him out and suspended him for a game during a playoff run, he straighted up and they went on to win the Super Bowl that year. It wasn't the punishment that was important, it was the fact that Holmes responded the right way and his teammates knew what the team stood for.

Marshall has yet to respond to any discipline he has received. We got Bryant for nothing and Aqib doesn't even deserve to be in this conversation yet. If we were talking about less compensation, like a 3rd rounder it would be different. However, Marshall's yards and TD's will not offset a 1st round pick and the negative affect he would have on the rest of the players.

Nobody is debating the fact that some of these FAs could help us right now... theres no doubt some of them could and we all know that. Thats not the point. The point is that this team is rebuilding from scratch with the goal of improving talent and keeping the team young and winning consistantly year after year. Giving up draft picks for players who will improve us right now but will be gone in a few years before we will be legitimate contenders... or overpaying for old players who will only take playing time away from younger guys and who will also be gone before were true contenders again does not work with the plan they have. Thats what your not understanding. Your using the old gruden philosophy of getting older players, some of you say "Other teams garbage" to try to win now. Gruden has done that for the last 7 years before Rah took over and look at the mess were in now. This regime is doing the right thing. It doesnt matter who we signed or traded for this year theres no way were going to be a contender this year so why overpay for these players that will be gone soon? I respect your opinion Bucfan47 I really do, im not trying to put you down whatsoever. But reality is that your plan doesnt work with whats really going on with the bucs. Atleast not in the long term which is what Rah and Dom are aiming for.

Has does a guy like Bolden not fit in long-term? 5-7 years is long-term. No player is guaranteed to play long-term. The average life span for an NFL player, the average career is 4 years.

Look at Caddy. He was drafted in round 1, expected to carry the torch for this Bucs team and has never really played since he was drafted. The draft is a crap-shoot. That's all it is....

My entire argument is that it takes a combination. NFL WR's are the single hardest position to draft for in the league. Go back and look at the 1st and 2nd round draft picks selecting in the last ten years. Many of them never lasted in the league beyond a few seasons. Tampa is NOW in a position of not only being forced to draft a WR for Freeman, they've got to hit a home run with their 1st three picks.

If they DO NOT get three starters out of their first three picks, then they're done. Just like Mayock said in his recent clip on the state of the Bucs. They must hit on all three picks and that's enormous pressure for these guys, given the FACT the Bucs have sucked at evaluating talent over the past decade.

Sucked.

I just have a hard time believing this team will be competitive next season. I really do. And that's sad to me.

First I am just amazed that I skimmed over and read so many people actually agree with BF47, the hater coolaid is strong with that one!
JoeG, I read all the time and comment only occasionally but I must say I really appreciate your fever for being a True BUCCANEER. It makes me ill at times to read the same garbage over and over about how the BUCS do everything wrong. The masses here, and other blogs/boards as well, love to spew the same trash over and over because it makes them feel so good to sound like everyone else.
Due to so many would-be FA not being able to test the open market, we are wise to watch the Bucs plan unfold. I hope we do find many pieces to start building with from the draft. Then, hoping the CBA gets fixed, we will have a much larger pool to sign from come next FA period. Also, all those teams so hot about the great upcoming draft will have to purge some decent players by the beginning of the season. That means there are many, many more players that will be made available, if only we as fans can be patient and wait for it to happen.
You either are a fan, or you are not, you make the call.
The titans are calling BF, they want you back

Given how this team has minimum talent level and is in the middle of a rebuilding process that is just starting out and you want to give up 2 high round draft pics for a 28 yr old receiver who has established himself as 1. Injury prone and 2. Immature when things arent going his way. Such as not getting the ball enough... I just dont see how the risk is worth the reward when we can easily draft somebody who has the same build as Boldin (like Benn) younger, and will be able to grow with Freeman. Boldin wont be able to grow with Freeman because he wont be around long enough IMO. You can say all this stuff about the bucs bad history of drafting blah blah blah... but you dont look at history when you draft. Thats just stupid. You can easily find a stud in the 7th round just like you can in the first round if you do your homework properly. And opinions of the so called "experts" that you like to quote are just that... opinions. There is no degree that makes you an expert in the NFL. You cant go to school to be an "expert" in the NFL. I Have all the same skills as these guys do to call myself an expert as well. I played football in high school and helped coach it. so i have "on the job" experience and ive watched the game my whole life. I know how to break down film and study players so im just as much an expert as they are. There opinions are no better than mine or yours. We all hope and expect that are high draft picks work out but it doesnt mean that we are gonna be horrible forever if 1 or 2 of these guys dont work out. As I keep saying your not looking at the long term picture your looking at it right now. Just because there not out overspending this year doesnt mean they will never go out and get the high priced FAs. It's just not the right time to do it yet.

This is what I see going on right now.... last year Rah said they would use last year to determine what they have on there roster. They found out rather quickly they didnt have much. So the true rebuilding process starts now. We get rid of the players that we dont think have a future here (bryant/clark/allen so on and so on) and start building our core thru the draft. Theres no need to rush and waste money/draft picks on old/older players. As we start developing our core group we can then start sprinkling in FA's to fill the remaining holes. As somebody said things might even get worse before it gets better. But eventually i believe this process will pay off. I want to win as much as the next guy but reality is that this process will take some time. I believe the Glazers know this and will give Rah and Dom the time necessary to succeed. And thank you Buc4life. I feel the same way when i read some of these posts that do nothing but constantly and unjustly belittle our HC and GM and owners before even giving them time to succeed. I think there doing great considering the mess they've had to clean up.

As much as it doesn't help for the 2010 season - the Bucs are probably wise to hold out of this free agent class.

Much like pundits have declared this draft as the deepest in recent memory - many are prediciting next season's free agent class to be the deepest (possibly) ever - with all the restricted free agents who lost their eligibility because of the CBA hitting the open market.

Spend the money next season on free agents and finagle as many draft picks as possible this season - makes sense.

I do think the pundits are wrong about the Bucs not improving. When a team is as young as the Bucs and gained as much starting experience in 2009 as a lot of players did - there will be a significant improvement in the holdovers in the starting lineup in 2010. The players who showed they have talent will get better.

Not everyone follows Clayton's career trajectory.

Bucfan47 - The draft is a crap-shoot. That's all it is, but so is free agency. Veterans players get injured too. Building through the draft does not mean that every player works out. The point is too focus on the draft and bring in as many talented young players as possible. After a couple of years you will find out which ones are solid and which ones won't work out, then you fill those holes with veterans until you can get more young guys in from future drafts who can eventually take over. It;s a youth movemnet so we take a step[ back to get as many youngsters as possible to hopefully be the future, evaluate and then fill those spots with veterans.

The reason we cleared all the veterans out is because we first want to see what we have in our current young players and the ones that don't preform to expected levels, they replace with new draftees. Eventually, you have a lot of holes filled with good young talent, once the team shows signs of life, you pick up veterans to fill remaining holes to be good contenders and focus on getting more young players slowly to fill the veterans shoes for when they pass there prime. Then you try to keep doing the same thing every year and the team will be solid for years. If you get into a situation like the last ten years where all the current youngster are getting old and you don't have replacements because of giving up too many draft picks and many other misfortunes in 12 to 15 years down the road, then it may be time to rebuild again.

At 30 years old it is probably about a 5% chance to still have 5-7, even 3-4 years of high-level football left...

I know this isn't what everyone would chose if it means to wait for the future, but if we can hold tight and focus on building through the draft and maybe be able to wait out the debt plight of Man U, then maybe in time we will be a solid team with a talented group of players that will be here long term to compete.

Just hang in there and lets root for our guys to develop, thats as good as it gets right now,,, Take it or shut the hell up...

I have no idea where some of you guys think a players career is done by age 30. That's crazy. Those days are gone. You must be thinking of guys who've been hurt their entire career, I have no idea.

A guy like Bolden is a physical specimen. He's something to behold. He's not injury prone. He's huge. He delivers blows to defenders, nobody enjoys meeting him over the middle. I see no reason to think he'll only play for another year or two. That's crazy. This guy has at least 4-5 seasons minimum of high-level football left in the tank. He takes care of his body, is in better shape than most guys in the league, yet some of you act like the Ravens just signed a washed up WR? Are you seriously smoking crack? I could pull out a scroll list of players that have performed well into their 30's interms if WR's. Hell, there are quite a few right damn now that are still playing that I'd love to have suiting up for the Bucs every Sunday.

I think Mayock said it best when he said " I don't know where this franchise is going"?

cigarfox - Veteran players are not a crap-shoot. You know what you are getting with veterans. They are proven, having done for usually a minimum of four years before hitting the free agent market. No team can predict injuries. There are guys in free agency that will still have more productive careers than guys in this very draft class. (Think Caddy). Caddy was drafted #5 overall and expected to be the franchise RB, only to suffer injuries and has never played a full season beyond his rookie season until this year. There have been plenty of so-called washed up Vets who've remained healthy and productive much more-so than Caddy, who fits the Bucs mold of thinking, which currently is to build through the draft ONLY.

My entire point or argument is simply to point out that Tampa Bay has missed a very good opportunity to add a few valuable players to a team that desperately needs an upgrade of depth and talent. Now they've backed themselves into a corner by placing all of their eggs in one basket, meaning they have now put an enormous amount of pressure squarely on the draft.

If the Bucs brass don't come away with at least 3-4 starters out of this draft class, then surely everyone in this forum can agree they are done as coaches. They simply will not be able to generate enough wins to sustain any type of success to validate them lasting past this upcoming season.

It's been my entire argument ever since free agency started. I knew they were not going to be big players in free agency, but I'm absolutely shocked they have not made a run at any players at all. Not even ONE. They have more money than any other team, they have lost multiple players to other teams, including their #1 WR to Cincy, and they appear to have no intentions of upgrading the position except through the draft.

It's not good enough for me right now, I'm pissed, and I'm to the point of either wanting to see new coaches, or new owners, or both. Something has got to give. And right now I'm blaming the GM for not having enough balls to convince the Owners that signing one or two of these premier free agents would have been a huge help to this team over the next few seasons. The team just needed help, and they didn't receive any help this offseason, or at least to this point.

They have regressed, and there is no other way to spin it.

Veterean players are not a crap shoot?.... thats got to be one of the dumbest things ever said. So your telling me that there has never been a free agent bust before?... I think there has been... ALOT of them... i would say 50% of the free agents who sign with teams usually are considered busts. If not 50% then dam well close to it. Hell you keep wanting to talk about history, take a look at all the free agent busts just from tampas history alone. Free agency is just as much a risk as drafting players. If your going to be real then be real about all the risks not just the ones that make your argument look better. Free agency is a risk. And it doesnt always have to do with injurys. But even injurys are no excuse to not label somebody a bust.

t's not good enough for me right now, I'm pissed, and I'm to the point of either wanting to see new coaches, or new owners, or both. Something has got to give. And right now I'm blaming the GM for not having enough balls to convince the Owners that signing one or two of these premier free agents would have been a huge help to this team over the next few seasons. The team just needed help, and they didn't receive any help this offseason, or at least to this point.

That 1 paragraph says it all about your mind frame Bucfan47. Your wishing for new coaches and GMs simply because your not satisfied with the first week of free agency. I think its sad that your writing this regime off simply because your not happy. Well I hope you find something that makes you happy in life. Perhaps a new team to root for that will listen to your wonderful expertise and sign whoever to whatever huge contract you say you say no matter how pointless it would be... just as long as your happy.... No im serious, I hope you find that team... especially since it would mean we wouldnt have to hear your bitching and crying anymore, and if you could find the same for JonGruden please. Man that would be great.

I've got an idea for a Tampa based tv or radio show. It would be called Buchater47 with special guest Jongruden. It could be an hour long show of nothing but bitching about the Buccaneers.

I heard Tim Brown and Jerry Rice are free agents and they are past 30, bucfan47.

Marshall is not a cancer and Boldin is not injury prone?

Nice, JoeG
I and many other FANS have written similar about the diaper-twins BF47 and JGruden. Waaaa Waaaa Waaaa
The only problem is he isn't man enough to know when to temper down his stupidity. Some have posted to ignore him or don't use his name and he will go away. It's a shame that 47 has defended himself before with freedom of speech when many were asking he be removed. When BF47 took too much heat day after day, all of a sudden JonGruden showed up using the same "IMO" every other sentence. He must feel so good to have two sessions up and post conversations with himself in order to show that someone agrees with his idiocy. Seriously go to another teams site because we don't want you and no one likes you or agrees with you BF47 and JGruden. This is a fan site and the comments by both of you are not fan comments.

nice touch erikmclamara

JoeG31581 - I've not been sold these guys will make it in Tampa from day 1. And it's got nothing to do with their ability to coach. These guys were setup to fail. You need to realize that. No coach/GM can gut a roster and only be able to build through the draft. It just doesn't happen. They are being setup to be replaced as soon as the Glazers recover monetarily.

JoeG31581 - Joe, if you are going to label free agency to include every single player that enters it, then sure, you're correct. But let me clarify. I'm not talking about every free agent. I'm not talking about when Tampa was strapped for cash and was stuck with options of only signing the likes of Charlie Garner or Todd Steussie. That's not what I mean.

There are always a couple free agents that become available that have proven their worth in the league. I'm not a fan of Julius Peppers, but his numbers speak for themselves. He's not a bust. Neither is Anquan Bolden. He's proven himself to be one of the best WR's in the NFL. He's not a bust. Tampa desperately needs to address the WR position and after allowing Bryant to walk, if they rely solely on the NFL draft then I think they will be making a big mistake.

Like it was mentioned before, the Glazers may have a hand in not allowing Dominik to make any moves to sign players, and that's probably true to a large degree. At least for the big name players.

But to answer your question, there are many players out there that are PROVEN. They've been in the league for enough time to show you they can play. Tampa hasn't made a run at any of them.

you guys are fooling yourself the glazers are cheap as it gets they have spent less money than anyone, it is pathetic being a season ticket holder for owners that do not want to win, why dont they sell the team to someone who will at least spend money and try to win , hey lets let our best reciever go and keep iron hands clayton great move,

Bucfan47 - Veterans are a crap shoot because just like Caddy, they can get injured too. Veteran players are not less likely to get injured than rookies. Charlie Garner and Tim Brown were terrible pick ups for the Bucs. There are a lot of veterans players who turn out bust: Javon Walker, Donte Culpepper, Randy Moss and so on. Moss is not a bust player overall, but he was a bust for Oakland despite the fact the team was bad. The Bucs are bad too, so a veterans like Moss could be a a bust in Tampa. To some degree, veterans are less risky though because you know more about their skills and know about them as a player.

It does not matter, because you miss the overall point. The point is too focus on the draft and bring in as many talented young players as possible. After a couple of years you will find out which ones are solid and which ones won't work out, then you fill those holes with veterans until you can get more young guys in from future drafts who can eventually take over. It's a youth movement so we take a step[ back to get as many youngsters as possible to hopefully be the future, evaluate and then fill those spots with veterans.

"it is pathetic being a season ticket holder for owners that do not want to win"

A lot of us just have disagreements. I respectfully don't agree with Bucfans47 and jongrudon a lot of the times. Well, I often agree with bucfans47, but just not on the current subject of rebuilding, but this comment goes beyond disagreement. I can't believe that you just said that the Glaziers don't want to win. I hope that you are just frustrated like the most of and is making a stupid comment out of that frustration because to say that they don't want to win is just silly. Why would they not want to win? Who doesn't want to win. They are rebuilding for the long term success. You can disagree with the way the are rebuilding and may be you you didn't want them to rebuild at all, but saying that the don't want a win really does not deserve a comment.

cigarfox - I'm not missing the point. The team could have signed Kerry Rhodes and Anquan Bolden, and still had plenty of draft picks to arm themselves with heading into the draft this year.

I would take just two guys. You give me Bolden and Rhodes, then allow the Bucs to draft and that team will be better than what takes the field this season. I'd almost guarantee that. Hands down. Rhodes is just like Moss. Great player in a bad system. He never got along with fat basterd Ryan. He wanted out as soon as the guy was signed.

That doesn't mean he's not a great player. The Cards just got a steal in my mind. So did the Ravens.

cigarfox - I never said they don't want to win. What the Glazers want to do first and foremost is make money. Let me be clear.

The problem with them demonstrating their ability to WANT to win is that currently their decisions have impacted the teams ability to get better. It's impacted the teams ability to sign anyone, which whether or not you want to admit it, hurts the teams chances of doing well this upcoming year, and it hurt the teams chances of doing well last year.

Listen, don't buy this rebuilding crap. Every team is constantly rebuilding. Every year teams hope to land the next star in the NFL draft. Understand that. The Bucs are a bad team. Bad teams usually take some steps to get better. The Lions signed VandenBosh and Nate Dog this year. Not huge signs, but they will improve because of those two pickups. You can bank on that. They will. Those two guys are good, proven football players that can step in and contribute immediately at a high-level.

This organization has taken steps backward. They've signed one player, while allowing four or five to walk and sign with other teams. So any way you add it up, they have gotten worse overall.

Seven Wins?

We better get at least four starters out of this draft if we are to even have a chance for that to happen.

Ok, Ok, Ok, I just have to say something... you just said Kerry Rhodes is a great player in a bad system... another absolutely absurd comment from BF47... So your saying the Jets, who had the #1 defense last year and who are absolutely loaded in terms of talent and who are coached by a very good proven Defensive minded coach is in a bad system? Well since you like facts and statistics so much... The facts and stats speak for themselves, Its not a bad system over there at all. Infact its more likely that Rhodes isnt a very good player in a great system... thats supported by facts buddy. And every team is not rebuilding. Yes every team tries to get better every year but thats different than rebuilding. The teams that are more complete in terms of talent have the luxury of being able to pick and choose quality free agents to compliment there core players. The Bucs are NOT there yet.

"Rhodes is just like Moss. Great player in a bad system. He never got along with fat basterd Ryan. He wanted out as soon as the guy was signed."

Really?... so this is the guy you want the bucs to trade for?... somebody who decides he doesnt want to play for the somebody he has never met?... Sounds like an immature stooge to me. What happens if he got here and decides he doesnt like the smirk on Rah's face every day and wants out. Hmm?... then we just blown draft picks and wasted a contract on a loser. Yea real sensible trade there buddy. And seriously theres no need to bash people you dont know such as Ryan. It just shows your stupidity and immaturity. Once again your trying to make an argument but contradicting yourself with every paragraph while spewing nonsense and rumors with no facts whatsoever to back them up.